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What is scary.

August 14, 2002 at 1:11 am · Filed under Rigamarole

The scariest thing in the world is void — yet it is all that I can bring myself to believe.

The mere fact that all that exists in our society, our minds, and our very souls is nothing but an illuision — and that every feeling and act that does not have anything directly to do with reproduction and one’s personal preservation is simply a deviance of nature caused by too comfortable a life. The fact that all that we strive for, all that we work for may mean nothing at all in the end.

In Buddhism it is believed that the soul is reincarnated until the point where the soul reaches enlightenment. After this enlightenment occurs and the mortal shell passes away for the final time, all that remains is the state most commonly referred to in English as ‘Nirvana’ – where there exists no suffering and pain. HOwever, nirvana in Buddhism is not the euphoric state that the word implies. In fact, this ‘Nirvana’ is actually a state of complete nonexistance — which explains why this place has no suffering or pain… Because if there is nothing (and no nothing because there is nothing to compare nothing to…)… then there cannot be anything. No right or wrong, no happiness. Simply put, Nirvana is the void where existance itself does not exist.

As I’ve grown up, I’ve come to believe that this void comes regardless of whether or not one’s soul has reached enlightenment or not. I do not believe that reincarnation occurs, though I wish it did.

On the contrary, I believe that this so-called state of Nirvana is reached by everybody as soon as they die. When a person dies, they just die. There’s nothing left, nothing remaining of them except for their body and their posessions.

What are we, to presume that we’re something more than just another type of organism – the same as a plant, the same as anything else that reproduces? Are we truly the individual creatures we make ourselves out to be? Do we truly have something more than cells, chemicals, hormones, instincts and a brain?

How then, do we explain our life as it exists? Personalities, feelings, wants… Why are these so essential to our life? How is it that we can suffer emotional pain… If we were only here for reproduction and preservation, wouldn’t emotional pain be needless?

Do souls exist?

Somehow I can’t bring myself to believe that a soul that reaches beyond the human body can exist. How terrifying, though! The thought that everything you know and feel cannot exist without this exact shell that you’re in. The thought that you cannot reach beyond this fragile house of flesh is chilling to believe.

Yet, somehow for me that is more believable than the existance of souls, heaven, hell, and reincarnation…

But then how do we explain the reasons why we go through what we do. The emotional and physical suffering, pain, and trauma that we put ourselves through day by day. Is there truly nothing in the end?

If so, what is my cause? Simply to run from the void? What a dreary thought.

ko said,

August 14, 2002 @ 6:26 am

im a buddhist and i also studied buddhism in college. i dont think nirvana is as simple as nonexistence. it’s an existence beyond human comprehension, not that of gods or dreams, but one completely unfathomable by human scum like you and i and the other unenlightened people visiting this site. to tell the truth i don’t really think/understand how there could be anything more to life than sex and sustenance (more or less wut u said), but hey don’t knock wut u luv, and i do luv it. but then again there are things that people can’t explain. the attachment we hold to our luv’d ones and fact that we luv and enjoy things that bring us no advancement (puppy dawgs and grandparents). me thinks there may be something more to life, but i dont think that i need to understand it.

hey this site is my new addiction. well at least its not pot.

John said,

August 14, 2002 @ 12:11 pm

I’ve travelled the same journey you have and asked a lot of the same questions. After coming full circle, studying various religions and beliefs I came to the conclusion that none of those things could provide me with an answer. The true answer lies within one’s heart. Do souls exist? I’d like to believe that. Scientists say they’re on the verge of proving they exist.

There has to be more to our existence on this planet than just living out our daily lives and then dying after a few years.

I used to think about death a lot, in fact it still scares me to death (no pun intended) today. I find the things that terrify me give me strength and hope – that the dead aren’t lost to us, and there’s more to life than what we can comprehend.

I’m sorry I can’t answer your questions but I indentified with your post and had to respond. I could go on but in order to save space I’ll stop rambling.

Take care,

J

tim said,

August 14, 2002 @ 1:25 pm

i have a simple theory on life.

life, in and of itself, has no purpose other than survival and reproduction. EVERYTHING, good or bad, humans add themselves.

it is up to the individual to add what they wish, to find a meaning for themselves.

basically this life is your one shot to make of it what you will. there is no reward, no punishment, no nothing waiting for you at the end.

one’s cause is not to run from the void. one must accept the void, and make the best of that which comes before the void.

some people find my view sad or scarey, i find it liberating. it helps me not worry about the little things because, well hell, if i only got this one shot at life, im not wasting my time… im gunna try to enjoy this shit while it lasts

do said,

August 16, 2002 @ 1:52 am

This is what you think about, in your spare time ? so deep yet, your time could have spent on thinking about something more productive……

bored/sad passerby

babysharka said,

August 16, 2002 @ 2:04 pm

Quite a beautiful train of thought you have there dear. I have thought about this too. Although I can’t address every single question you ask, I’ll tell you one of my conclusions that arrived to:

The funniest thing is when people ask, "What is the meaning of life?" without realizing that they answered their own question already. The meaning of life is to bring meaning to life.

pariah said,

August 16, 2002 @ 3:37 pm

i have the exact same problem kim. noone likes to believe that there is nothing after death, but yet it exists. many try to believe that they are one of the few chosen ones that are "enlightened" or chosen to go to heaven, hell, or wherever.
i believe the same thing that you do: nothing is out there after passing. nothing. blackness. void. although this might seem callous to some, i wholeheartedly accepct the fact that i will die after passing on my genes to the next generation. that is our existence, our purpose; albeit it might be a short existence that could be snuffed out at any moment, it should be lived to its fullest.

also, i feel that religions are crocks of shit, but that is just my opinion. nelieving in something outside of ourselves seems like a good idea while we are doing it, but on our death bed we all realize the truth; there is nothing. no heaven, hell, purgatory, nirvana, or the allysian fields of yore. we all experience our death the same as the next, as the cold, chilling hand of death clasps us by our conscious and slowly we fade away. yet we live on in the hearts and minds of others that we knew, so we are never truly dead. only not present.

i’ll get off my soapbox now.

dvF said,

August 17, 2002 @ 1:24 am

So, I may be venturing out on a limb here… but I take it the harvest turned out well :)?

Kenny said,

August 17, 2002 @ 6:08 pm

One night while trying to sleep I thought of the exact same thing. When I told my sister and cousins about it, they all looked at me funny and said "damn Ken, that’s kinda depressing". I jokingly told them, "It is what you do in life that matters, look in your heart!" heh. Strange enough, I ended up believing that same statement. For ppl who are religious, i’m happy for them. Even in death they believe there is something, making it easier when they leave this world. For us who doesn’t believe there is something after death, it’s very frightening. For me at least, i’m pretty much scared of dying. I went to a christian church for a year just to see what it’s all about. I didn’t find anything believable at all. Oh well, was worth a shot! :/

Brett said,

August 19, 2002 @ 7:21 pm

You all make good arguments that nothing happens after you die. This void. I myself being Christian, can find the thought of death scary at times. The thing with religion is no logical reasoning can ever explain it. Bring out your books, research, studies and you still not a single thing about what happens after death.

Life after death. Do you believe there is? I do. Religion is a touchy subject. Everyone believes they are right.

Jen said,

August 22, 2002 @ 4:01 am

Nirvana in Buddhism isn’t non-existence. It’s more a state of total emancipation from everything in the relative world i.e. all illusions. You could also say it’s "letting go" and being free from all attachments. Also, Buddhism states that there is no soul so they don’t actually believe in reincarnation but instead, rebirth. In fact, the whole no-soul thing is a basic teaching in Buddhism.

Personally, I believe that we do all have a soul. I’m not quite yet sure of the relationship between the soul and the physical body works but I feel that there is an afterlife and that there is something out there for all of us beyond death. I try not to concern myself with such thoughts though because all it does is gives me a headache.

If there is an afterlife, then we’ll know it when we get there and if there isn’t, we’ll never know cause we’re dead. All that matters is how we live our life now.

i74 said,

August 27, 2002 @ 11:47 pm

firstly, i concur with JEN and KO regarding the nature of nirvana, however, as a disclaimer, i firmly state that i would be fool to even think i could comprehend its magnificence.

the underlying motivation intrinsic in all religion is simply that we die; ancient humans needed a method to grasp the mysterious nature of death. all religions, in theory and without the incessant adulterations of humans, make a reasonably decent attempt to allay the fear associated with death (often in exchange for ‘goodness’). when humans, and particularly states became involved in them, they became entities by which the population is controlled, thus alienating the true “cosmic crusaders”.

while i consider myself an “All-ist” meaning I believe in everything, including “nothing”, i would like to state that more people have died in the name of religion than for any other cause on this planet (particularly Christianity, i.e. the Philippines, south and central Americas). also note that Buddhism never aggressively expanded, no human attempted to conquer another in the name of Buddha; that could be indicative of something…

to the point, do you really think this is it? 78 years for the ladies and a couple less for the guys…? Perhaps it is so. What if ‘what is’ is what you believe? what if the only thing that lives is the ego and its ‘materialism’ fetish? all that we strive for in the material world is really nothing; it is illusion, material world attachments. american consumer driven culture has impregnated us with a prism that refract our thoughts. what do we strive for? a house? a flashy car? You get a mortgage, monthly payments and a whole bunch of stress; then a couple years later a bigger house and a flashier car and more yet more stress.……Is this how we define ourselves? Possessions? [“When you die, you don’t take anything but your soul” (John Lennon)] it might be that the inability to satiate our material desires that lead to hopelessness; eliminate such desires and experience bliss. why do we want these things? perhaps we are conditioned to want them, and this conditioning supports the largest consumer based economy in the world. Peons in their playpen of madness!!

regarding souls, personally, i have experienced my soul, though subscribing to All-ism i respect those who believe that is a crock of bullshit. i have experienced it on several occasions both with a chemical catalyst and without. (Perhaps I conditioned myself to belief it and experience it.) Regardless, the scariest involved 1/4 ounce of stropharia cubenisis; the mildest quiet sitting.

below is some stuff related to the topics in this thread worth reading:

be here now by Ram Dass; the holographic universe by Michael Talbot; the secret life of plants by bird and tompkins; food of the gods by Terence McKenna (our generation’s Tim Leary); true hallucinations by Terence McKenna; the archaic revival by Terence McKenna; the symbiotic planet by lynn margolis(sp?); the psychedelic experience by timothy leary; the doors of perception by Aldous Huxley; cleansing the doors of perception by Huston Smith; Nature by ralph waldo emerson; song of myself by walt Whitman; siddhartha by herman hesse.

i’m not a pretentious tit. really, i’m not. but i think that this material could prove quite useful in coming to terms with ones own existence and more importantly shedding light on some issues which were addressed in this thread and related to the original entry.

i’m really not a tit.

humbly submitted.

PS – is “jen” a given name? the Chinese character often romanized this way and pronounced more like “run” means “righteousness” or “humanity”. cool name.

*common sense isn’t so common*

Linda said,

August 29, 2002 @ 7:38 am

I just wanted to say that everytime I visit this site and read your thoughts, it takes me to another lever, another lever of feelig and thinking about life in a different way. Thank you Kim, for making me consider what life is about and maybe trying to live it the way I should.

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